Speaker 1:
Welcome to Conversations of Agile Change with Dr. Jen Frahm and Lena Ross. Join us as we dive deep into the world of agile change, engaging with individuals who are at the forefront of agile transformation. We explore how they adapt change practices, enhance leadership capabilities, and uncover the strategies that succeed and those that don’t. We’re recording on the lands of the Boon Wurrung and Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung peoples. And we acknowledge the rich history of change and agility within the First Nations communities Australia-wide. We honor and pay our respects to the elders both past and present and extend that respect to any indigenous persons joining us today.
Dr Jen Frahm:
And hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Conversations of Agile Change. This week, I am very delighted to be bringing to you one of our agile all-stars, I will describe her as, of the Agile Change Leadership Institute, the rather fabulous Elizabeth Beattie. She is a lifelong learner, has been through, I think, pretty much every one of our courses from the beginning, and is so very generous in continuously sharing what she is learning and how she is integrating it. And we caught up recently.
And Elizabeth now has what many would consider the dream role, in that she’s the program change lead for AI and innovation at the University of New South Wales, UNSW. Now, for our American listeners, UNSW is one of the group of eight. Group of eight, think Brownstones, think Ivy League. So, it’s the big leagues Elizabeth is working in. And she’s doing some amazing stuff. So, I really wanted to hear more about it and share that with you. Elizabeth, welcome to Conversations of Agile Change.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Thank you. I’m super excited to be here. This is a long-awaited conversation that we’ve been talking about for about six months. So-
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yes. [inaudible 00:02:15].
Elizabeth Beattie:
… thanks for having me.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Look, sometimes, it doesn’t happen fast, right? Things happen, but it does happen. I think there’s a hair ad about that. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen or something like that.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Well, it’s given me more time to plan, so.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. Well, the thing is, because we are going to be talking about AI, I’m quite sure that had we had a conversation six months ago, it would have been very different to the conversation we’re having today. So, there may be a reason. Okay. Let’s start with working at a university, doing change at a university. This is not your first rodeo, rodeo. I’m going to upset our American listeners, North American listeners with my rodeo, rodeo pronunciation. All that to say, you’ve done this before. This is not your first university you’ve worked in.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Right.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Can you tell us a little bit about what the higher education sector is like as a change environment? What’s it like to do change in that space?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Sure. Well, I guess the first thing I’d say is that it’s very collaborative. So, there’s lots of stakeholder engagement from top to bottom, whatever the change is. And that’s been really helpful for me because I’ve been able to lean into that. And I think it’s fair to say that it is critical that we engage and work together on how we implement AI.
So, our program has taken a really broad lens on engagement, and we’ve established an AI ecosystem, which includes five working groups across the university, and we’ve also established various communities of practice and an advice panel that innovators can come to for support. So, what we’ve done is we’ve engaged on all elements of the program in those groups, so our vision and roadmap, capability uplift, technology data, governance and reporting, which has been a really great way to work.
Dr Jen Frahm:
That’s quite straight away off the bat. That’s a lot different to the way a lot of change programs work, right?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes. Absolutely.
Dr Jen Frahm:
You’ve really gone and hit the ground running in terms of collaborative co-creation. I’m almost seeing concentric circles in terms of…
Elizabeth Beattie:
Exactly. And it’s almost expected. And it doesn’t mean you necessarily need to use that human-centered approach, but obviously, I like to, so it works for me, but yeah, it makes it very easy. I mean, another interesting thing about higher ed is that we have AI… and maybe this is not unique, but we have AI and innovation embedded into our strategy, which gives us a very strong remit.
So, we’ve come out and stated in our strategy that we wish to provide students with future-focused skills and knowledge to achieve their aspirations within their lives, careers, and impact, but our new strategy is titled Progress for All, which means we’re looking for societal impact. So, the focus is slightly different potentially to some sectors. So, not only are we looking at things like technology and research, but advancing medical treatments, indigenous self-determination, human rights, inclusion, social justice, et cetera. So, we’re using that lens with respect to our program.
Dr Jen Frahm:
So, really aligning that university strategy with the change agenda there-
Elizabeth Beattie:
Exactly.
Dr Jen Frahm:
… purpose, centering on purpose. Yeah.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Absolutely.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah.
Elizabeth Beattie:
I mean, we’re also surrounded by leading-edge research and innovation. And so, what we’ve done in the program is to try and really foster innovation rather than manage it or control it because there’s so many pockets of it everywhere. And so, what we want to do is to support and enable that and grow it. So, we’ve tried to create a lot of environments where people can experiment, lean into that technology in a safe way through sandboxes, proof of concepts, et cetera, and bringing that coalition of the willing along to really lead the way, test, learn, and share.
Dr Jen Frahm:
And do they… They, they, so academics who are researchers, right? So, again, UNSW is research intensive. And does that audience necessarily make the link between the work they do, “I’m a researcher. I am using scientific inquiry into how I solve problems to the change space,” or do they have different expectations of change? Because I look at it and I go, “Well, change is scientific inquiry. It is research. It is…”
Elizabeth Beattie:
I think maybe not all of them, but the ones… because we’re, at the moment, working with those early adopters. They certainly do. Absolutely. And I’ll talk about the communities that we’ve created in a little while, but they really embrace that, which has been great for us.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. So…
Elizabeth Beattie:
So, can I just make one more point?
Dr Jen Frahm:
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Another really interesting thing about higher education is that we’re very transparent and open about what we do. So, we share learnings and insights with our colleague universities. And so, we are trying to pave the way in terms of the sector, but we’re also working with others who are doing the same and learning from each other, which is a really nice way to operate.
Dr Jen Frahm:
That’s really unique-
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes.
Dr Jen Frahm:
… because you don’t necessarily get that if you’re working in the financial sector or fast-moving consumer goods. There’s not that ecosystem of learning from competitors.
Elizabeth Beattie:
From each other. Exactly.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yeah.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. Interesting. So, paint me a picture of what a day in the life of Elizabeth Beattie looks like.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Well, we are working in Agile Sprints, so that does create a little bit of complexity because I’m working across multiple streams, but it’s actually new for our team. So, we’re trying to explore that new territory and role model. So, we’ve got four streams in our AI program. And then I’m also in the innovation program. There’s a couple there. So, we’re involved in everything, the change team, because there’s so much going on. And the reason I mentioned that is because it’s a great opportunity to experiment with new ways of working.
So, specifically, I’m talking AI here. So, we’re creating playbooks, we’re trying to experiment with agents and other efficiencies to really streamline our work. So, that’s provided a really great opportunity. In terms of my work, I’ve got four objectives over the next six months. So, one of them is the capability lead for innovation. And so, what I’m doing is designing training programs and curriculums on human-centered design and AI. That’s an IT-specific thing.
And I’m trying to learn about the intersection between the two, which is quite interesting. Looking at developing an approach to measure and uplift AI capability university-wide. And so, again, we are leaning into that continuous engagement and community building. I worked on our copilot rollout. And so, now, we’re planning a scale of rollout approach as part of our business case.
So, we’re not sure of the parameters yet, but we do have seven and a half thousand staff approximately. So, that would have to be certainly a scale of rollout approach. So, that’s taking a bit of a challenge for me. And then finally, we’re really doubling down on comms and engagement because it’s the second year of our program now, and we need to just make sure that we are being a little bit more sophisticated with respect to how we’re communicating, getting that broader reach so that we’re not just, I guess, engaging with those who want to engage with us, but we want to go a lot broader.
So, it’s a nice mix between the strategic and the operational. Good opportunity to use agile and human-centered approaches. Obviously, AI, huge, huge learning component. The brain strain is intense because things change regularly, and I need to keep up to speed with that, but that’s something that I enjoy.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. Oh, you’re well-suit to do it. So, that, I’m quite sure. Now, here’s something, and we’ve touched on this on our former conversations, and it’s one that’s still playing out in conversations I’m having with other people, which is a version of what’s the big deal about AI? And so, let me just play out what’s in my head. I think there’s two elements.
One, how do we, as change practitioners, use AI in our change work? But the second one is how do we introduce AI so that the programs that you’re doing? And so, the question that I’ve been playing around with is how is AI any different to any other technology or ways of working that we’ve introduced before? Are we getting all hyped up about it when actually it’s just another form of technology change? So, I am super curious to hear your take on that.
Elizabeth Beattie:
So, I don’t think it is just a technology change. And I think it does probably… I mean, it depends from a change practitioner, what sort of background you have, but I think it’s really… it is a ways of working transformation. And so, you’re looking at people, process, technology, mindset shifts, et cetera. And I think you can use those similar approaches to whether you’re doing an operating model change, an agile transformation, or innovation more generally. So, I think, from that perspective, it’s very similar.
I mean, I came into this program with no experience at all with AI, but I had experience in some of those in ways of working changes. I think, I mean, it is always changing. So, you do need a flexible and iterative approach. And you can’t design the deliverable upfront because of the fact that the technology’s changing and your environment is changing. So, you need to do pops and pilots, et cetera.
And so, from that perspective, I think, again, we can use similar approaches in terms of human-centric change, et cetera. Everyone is at different stages, and so we need to align what we’re doing to where our users are at. And so, you’ve always got that continuous improvement, constant iterating approach. So, for me, I think it is very similar to… it’s not just technology, but I think it’s very similar to some of the other changes that we’ve gone through previously.
Dr Jen Frahm:
So, devil’s advocate now to what my thinking is, and then now playing back what you’ve just said, is there something that’s inherently scarier about AI that increases the fear factor for the recipient of change, or do you think that your people are just rolling with it?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Oh, there’s definitely a fear factor. And so, that’s where that mindset shift comes in. And also, the importance of leadership sponsorship also comes in. I think a lot of people don’t understand it, and both how to use it safely, but also what it might mean for them. And so, there’s a huge education component, which is, again, I’ve always worked on capability style changes, and I think… and we’re taking a capability-led approach.
So, I think that is critical so that people can understand it and go through those various stages of making that mindset shift, which, going back to more traditional change approaches, you’ve got the awareness and then you’ve got the desire, that is important, and then learning how to cope with it and how to traverse that journey.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Okay. So, I just want to pick it up on… you just shared that you’re taking a capability-led approach. Can you tell us what that means? What does that mean for you?
Elizabeth Beattie:
So, as I said before, one of the objectives in it… we’ve got four objectives in our program, and one of them is capability building. And so, what we are trying to do is to really uplift capability in AI across the whole of the university. And so, I’m using change techniques to do that. So, we’re using the 70-20-10 model, which is 10% learning, 20% peer-based learning, and then 70% experimentation. And so, we are offering training on specific tools, but also more generally.
But what we’re trying to do is to really get people to test these tools and experiment and learn on the job. So, I guess, from a change perspective, I’ve been, as I said, using some of these change tools to really do that. And obviously, they’re agile change tools. So, to give you an example, we’ve used the future changescape, which has been around goal setting, inspiration for learning, et cetera. We’re collecting data on everything.
So, the tools that we’re using, our rollout approach, use cases, time saved, et cetera, we’re doing that through pulse checks, surveys, retros. We’ve got communities of practice that meet regularly. And basically, what we’re trying to do is to get the community to help each other because we’re not experts. It’s the community who are experts. So, we’ve done a lot of working out loud, co-creation. For example, we’ve created a capability framework with co-creator training courses. Also, I got my community to help me create the pilot and the rollout approach for various tools.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Amazing.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yeah.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Amazing.
Elizabeth Beattie:
It’s been quite exciting from that perspective.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Can I dive into that one just a little bit?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yeah.
Dr Jen Frahm:
So, one of the pushbacks that we often get on that concept is that it’s really time-intensive. You can’t do it quickly. So, as a change lead, I could walk in and I can tell you, “Here’s your change approach,” but the minute we start co-creating it, that’s going to take days. What was your experience of co-creating that change approach with your communities of practice?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Well, the thing is that I’m not an expert. So, yes, you could say it does take a long time, but you’re not doing it just in one step. You’re doing other things. So, they’re learning, they’re sharing, and then you’re taking feedback. And in some cases, I didn’t even plan to co-create it, but I kept getting all this valuable feedback. And it’s like, “Well, you’re going to be my champions, then how about you design a change approach and tell me what worked for you?” So, yeah, it is time-intensive, and this is one of the challenges that I haven’t yet worked out in terms of scaling. It is time-intensive, but no one’s an expert at this sort of thing. So, I think, really, it’s the only way.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Interesting. So, as part of your role, you have innovation attached to AI and innovation as enablement lead. So, I’m curious, again, what’s the intersection of innovation and agile change? Do they work nicely together or do they butt heads a bit, or what’s been your experience of that?
Elizabeth Beattie:
I mean, I think they work nicely together. So, having those two things in my role is a gift for me. I mean, I first learned about human-centered and agile change in an innovation transformation, which was probably six, seven years ago. And I learned about design thinking and then I linked it to change management. It was actually via a seminar that Lena Ross gave.
So, she provided that linkage for me. So, I think, for me, it’s great as a change practitioner. Every day, I have the opportunity to be continuously learning, experimenting, supporting that mindset shift using a human-centered approach. So, yeah, I think it’s a great opportunity. And I personally can’t see any other way to do it, but that’s just me.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. So, what I’m hearing from that is really the alignment of the agile mindset with innovation, that appreciating failure as part of the process and giving things a go and-
Elizabeth Beattie:
Absolutely.
Dr Jen Frahm:
… that…
Elizabeth Beattie:
They’re not exactly the same, and we’ve talked about this before, because I’ve tried to work out… There are differences between the innovation and the agile mindset, but I think that probably maybe 70%, 80% of it is similar in terms of the failure, experimentation, curiosity, and some of those other concepts. It’s very, very similar. And customer centricity is a key part of innovation, obviously, and also… and agile. And I think, for me, that human-centered design is probably the linchpin from an innovation methodology. I mean, there’s many, but I think that the key one that I use would be human-centered design.
Dr Jen Frahm:
You’ve mentioned a couple of times that nobody’s the expert in this space, which really, again, if we think about agile mindset and… we talk about the shift from expert mindset to beginner mindset. I’m curious what your experience has been embodying that beginner’s mindset, particularly… I’m mindful of how vulnerable you can feel. You are the change lead. You’re going in and saying, “Nobody’s expert,” and we quote. So, how have you navigated your personal feelings of vulnerability with this space of not being the expert, of having people in your communities knowing much more? What’s that been like?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Well, I mean, it’s interesting because we do have a bit of an expert culture. I mean, I’m talking higher ed generally because you’re surrounded by experts. And so, I think, coming back to the point I made about being collaborative and leaning into your stakeholders, that’s been really important, but it’s a cultural shift for some. For me, I mean, I’ve always had vulnerability. I’ve always embraced different techniques, like reverse mentoring and other ways to learn from others.
My role as a change leader is not to be an expert, and I never was in terms of AI, certainly not now, but what I’m trying to do is to facilitate and create that environment where people can learn. So, I think, as a leader of a community of practice, if you’re not an expert, then you can create that psychological safety. And if I can be open about my own capabilities, or lack of, and failures, I think that you can encourage others to do the same and join them on that journey.
It’s interesting. I think… So, it reminds me of the recent shift from when I went to agile and human-centered approach, and I went back to beginner, and I had to embrace experimentation, et cetera. And at that point, there was a bit of a catalyst event, which was COVID, so forced to think differently. I think, for me, in this role, I’ve found a bit of a catalyst event, which was I used to have a large team, but now I’ve gone back to delivery and I’m in a much smaller team, so I do need to think creatively about how to get things done. And I’ve used AI to do that, which has forced me to really experiment and leverage the technology, which I probably wouldn’t normally do.
Dr Jen Frahm:
I’m so pleased that you mentioned that because I’ve mentioned that earlier, and then I forgot to pick up on that. Can you tell us a little bit about how you’ve used AI in your change practice? What does that look like? And I think you mentioned agents before and…
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yeah. Well, to be fair, I’m still learning, and time is a challenge. So, I mean, obviously, relying on data is a big thing, so I use it as a bit of an analyst, get it to use… create… agents is probably… might be a little bit more too sophisticated, that’s probably the wrong word, but use the tool to help analyze all the data that we’ve being collecting. Also, in terms of synthesizing and extracting, as I said, I’ve had to do a lot of learning.
And whilst I prefer to read all the articles I can myself, then after I’ve read them, getting AI to help synthesize and draw out the key points. It’s also helped with creativity. So, for example, I mean, in terms of your research, if you’re planning a training course or whatever, it can certainly help you, but also it can help you do things that you wouldn’t necessarily do. So, I think it was maybe a month ago, I went to the change leader breakfast that you spoke at also with Greg Taylor from Salesforce. And he talked about… he shared a podcast, too.
And so, it inspired me to go away and experiment with that. And I had to present a learner persona, so somebody learning about AI. And I got this podcast tool to create a podcast about what I was trying to present and used that to present the tool rather than just to show a persona. And it was something different, so it caught people’s attention. I felt good because I tried something new, and it wasn’t a failure. I mean, it didn’t matter if it was, but… So, I think it’s forced you to do different things. And I mean, I’m lucky I’ve got access to lots of tools, but I have to try and build time every day to use them.
And if I’m really struggling with something, I say, “Right. Okay. How can AI help me with this? How can AI help me be faster, more creative, et cetera?” So, I mean, it’s interesting. When I did the ACL certificate, I discovered I wasn’t naturally curious. And so, I’ve forced myself to become curious by building it into my every day. And I’ve had to do the same with AI because it’s not my natural tendency to use it. So, it’s like I’m always looking for a way to use it and then sharing it with others, and often my peer groups, so the people who I’m facilitating, who prompt me to do something, which is nice. It’s, again, that reverse [inaudible 00:26:39].
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah, that’s awesome. And just to reassure you, pretty much a high proportion of the people who do the Agile Change Leadership Certificate, that module on curiosity often shocks them. And everybody realizes, “Actually, we’re not that curious,” or not in the sense of curiosity for curiosity’s sake.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes, correct.
Dr Jen Frahm:
We’re all pretty good at being curious for problem solving, but not for just wondering and playing with curiosity and the creative side of curiosity that you’ve just given us fabulous examples of. I love it. Okay. Based on what your experience has been, top three agile change tools, which would be the three that you couldn’t live without?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Oh, good question. Probably personas is one. And I didn’t do these straight away, but I needed to understand a community. And so, I ran some workshops. And I mean, it’s a great opportunity to generate engagement, to gather data, and actually just about to start it again because I’ve realized, in my capability approach, we need to create personas of the different levels of learners, not the different groups, but the different levels of learners, which will help drive our approach.
Interestingly, and this was a surprise, Lean Coffee has been my absolute game changer. So, I actually used it in my community. So, we had small communities of practice, but we had, as part of our pilot, a large community, and people could just come along if they wanted to. And so, I used Lean Coffee as the agenda, which is genderless, get them to drive it, and people just embraced it. We were getting 40 to 50 people coming along.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Amazing.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Initially, it was like troubleshooting and questions, and then people would start showcasing their tools, and I might prompt people behind the scenes to do little presentations. And often, only five or 10 people would speak, but it was those really enthusiastic people. And then if people missed it, they’d go and watch the recording-
Dr Jen Frahm:
Amazing.
Elizabeth Beattie:
… which amazed me because it’s like a conversation. And so, I was always surprised that people wouldn’t want to say, “Well, you didn’t record it this week. What’s happening?” I don’t know what my third tool is. You’ve got me on the fly here. Probably, I mean, just in terms of that reflection, I have used retros, and it’s retros of what we’ve done. So, again, with the community, we did a retro of our pilot, and we use that to drive, as I said, the rollout approach.
And that’s where that co-creation came in. And I wasn’t planning on doing the co-creation, but I was getting so much valuable feedback. It’s much better than a survey like I did at face-to-face using an online whiteboard. People really… Again, it’s an engagement opportunity. It’s data gathering.
Certainly, it’s those two of the ACLI change capabilities. I’ve really leaned into the data-informed decision-making and the continuous engagement, and hence why I’m trying to push myself to do some of the… bit more communication and do things a little bit more creative, push that curiosity into the direction, which is probably something I’m not as strong at.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. No, that’s great. That is excellent. Okay. You run into a leader of an organization, they hear what you’re doing, and they say, “We’re just about to embark on an AI transformation of the organization,” what’s your advice to that leader?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Oh, well, that’s a good question. I mean, as we spoke before, fear is an inherent threat for many. And I think it’s a leader’s role to alleviate that uncertainty by really fostering trust, transfer communication and… around how they’re doing it, but also what the purpose and the expectations are for AI implementation. So, I think the best way that leaders can do that is by experimenting and leading the way to becoming practitioners.
And so, what I mean by that is literally role modeling and being transparent about their struggles. So, for example, we had some senior leaders on our early pilots, and they came along to our community sessions, and said that they were struggling with the tool and struggling with the mindset shift. And it was so powerful for the other people in the room because then they could also say, “Well, we’re struggling, too.” And so…
Dr Jen Frahm:
The same.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Exactly. So, it’s about being patient, keeping… People are all at different levels. So, give your teams that time and space to shift the way that they work, but also be transparent about it. So, in your team meetings or communities or online, share the challenges and how you solve them and lean on each other.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Nice. What about your advice for fellow change practitioners as they step into more and more work of this nature?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Well, don’t be afraid. I would definitely recommend using a human-centered approach because it’s very individual. I think, we’ve talked about this, you need to be curious and role model and experiment. So, there’s lots of use cases. And I think you actually need to get into the weeds, not to become an expert, but so that you can have that empathy maybe with your users. And then I would certainly recommend having higher levels of engagement because that’s when you get that richness from the other members of the group that you can really push that learning along.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Perfect. Elizabeth, this has been such a rich conversation. Thank you so much. Now, we have got a special treat coming up for fellow alumni. So, anybody who has been through our Certificate of Agile Change Leadership or Agile Change Management, you are going to host a co-creation session on how to create a change management approach for AI. Is this correct?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes. I am. Very exciting.
Dr Jen Frahm:
It is. We’re going to do that May the 23rd in the morning. So, that will be the 22nd. Have I got the date right?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes. It’s Friday morning.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah, Friday morning in Australia. It will be Thursday afternoon, evening in North America. Can you give us a bit of a preview? What’s on your mind? What does co-creation of a change approach for AI look like? And I think… Have we got 90 minutes or two hours? What have we… 90 minutes?
Elizabeth Beattie:
90 minutes?
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah.
Elizabeth Beattie:
So, I’ll be honest with you, I haven’t yet worked out what I’m planning to do, but… And I’ll be keen, anyone who wants to come along, for everyone to bring their challenges. I mean, when I started, I had some fairly early deliverables, so I went straight out, probably no surprise, based on our conversation, and started collecting data and engaging, used the minimum viable change process to drive my work, so chunking down the change.
And then because I was new to the organization and still learning, that was a great way to gather insights and to help drive what I was doing. And I mentioned it took me a while to work out that I needed personas. So, yeah, I’ll definitely be using, I guess, the ACLI change capabilities, but I would be keen for people to come along with their challenges and then we can co-create them together using some of those tools.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Well, and maybe there’s a little bit of showcasing of what you’ve done, and there’s a little bit of working out loud, and there’s…
Elizabeth Beattie:
Absolutely.
Dr Jen Frahm:
We have lots of opportunities. We will work through it. I think it’s going to be incredibly high-value activity regardless. Elizabeth Beattie, thank you so much for your generosity in sharing all of this. If people want to connect with you on LinkedIn, that’s okay for you? Is that the best place?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Absolutely. Yes.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah?
Elizabeth Beattie:
Yes, please. Yeah.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Yeah. Easy to find you. And I’ll put that, your profile, in the show notes as well. But a very big thank you, Elizabeth, from all of us here at the Agile Change Leadership Institute.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Thanks for having me, Jen. I’ve loved the conversation, and I’ve learned things as well.
Dr Jen Frahm:
It’s the way we continue this cycle of lifelong learning. Good stuff.
Elizabeth Beattie:
Exactly.
Dr Jen Frahm:
Thanks.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for joining us on this conversation of agile change. If you’re keen for more insights and inspiration from Dr. Jen Frahm and Lena Ross, you can connect on LinkedIn to stay updated with their latest thoughts and discoveries. Follow the Agile Change Leadership Institute on LinkedIn or Facebook for a wealth of valuable resources. Subscribe to our biweekly Sprint notes where you’ll find thought-provoking content delivered straight to your inbox, or check out at @agilechange on Instagram. We look forward to having you back for more insightful conversations on agile change. Until next time. Be brave, be curious, and have fun with change.
